Combat Commander: Europe Tournament #1 - Christian Wins!!

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bsmith
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Combat Commander: Europe Tournament #1 - Christian Wins!!

Post by bsmith » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:12 pm

Hey guys.

I'm thinking of a system where everyone gets to play everyone else once. Each round consists of everyone playing the same scenario. So in the first round we all play Scenario 1, in the second round Scenario 2 etc. Opponents will be decided randomly for each scenario, as long as everyone plays everyone else only once the entire tournament.

We will use a simple ladder system to record wins and losses. Seeing as % points for and against will not work to break ties in CC:E, we may need to have some sudden death finals if two or more players finish with the same win/loss record.

For bidding we will use the Vickrey system:

1. Players secretly write down the side they want and the number of VP they are willing to sacrifice at game start to get that side.
2. Bids are revealed simultaneously.
3. If players bid for different sides then they both get the side they want with no modification to VP.
4. If players bid for the same side then the highest bidder gets that side and his opponent gets the VP amount of the lowest bid plus one.
5. If players bid the same amount for the same side then sides are determined randomly with the loser getting the VP bonus.

The downside of this system is the Sudden Death track may become more desirable but it shouldn't be a big problem.

Signed Up
Ben
Imants
Alpha
Christian
Jeff
Chee-Yan
Doug
Frank



Score Sheet in Word Format
SCHEDULE & RESULTS
Last edited by bsmith on Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:11 pm, edited 10 times in total.

cyhiew
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Post by cyhiew » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:06 am

Okay, I will join in. It will garauntee me games of CC:E

Chee-Yan
Dont Panic !

Mr Skeletor
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Post by Mr Skeletor » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:36 pm

It's almost enough to get me to buy a copy of the game.

dougp
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Re: Combat Commander: Europe Tournament #1

Post by dougp » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:45 pm

bsmith wrote:
...

For bidding we will use the Vickrey system:

1. Players secretly write down the side they want and the number of VP they are willing to sacrifice at game start to get that side.
2. Bids are revealed simultaneously.
3. If players bid for different sides then they both get the side they want with no modification to VP.
4. If players bid for the same side then the highest bidder gets that side and his opponent gets the VP amount of the lowest bid plus one.
5. If players bid the same amount for the same side then sides are determined randomly with the loser getting the VP bonus.

...

Fans of euros should sign up purely for the opportunity to participate in the Vickrey system.

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bsmith
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Re: Combat Commander: Europe Tournament #1

Post by bsmith » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:53 pm

dougp wrote:Fans of euros should sign up purely for the opportunity to participate in the Vickrey system.
hahaha. The irony!

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Post by jeff » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:04 pm

Ok, I'll be in.

I feel some of the scenarios are unbalanced and it might be difficult working out just how unbalanced it is, but we'll see how we go.

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Post by bsmith » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:47 pm

jeff wrote:Ok, I'll be in.

I feel some of the scenarios are unbalanced and it might be difficult working out just how unbalanced it is, but we'll see how we go.
Yeah my thoughts also. There will be some skill required in figuring out your bid if you do indeed feel it's unbalanced. The designer thinks they're all balanced but we've all heard that before!

OK we've got six players so I'll close entry.

I'm going to go and work out the schedule, it'll be completely random of course. I might use Swiss Perfect or some such software.

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Post by annawid » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:05 pm

I can help you with this if you want. After all you helped me in my Tichu tournament.

I'll be completely impartial as I don't even know what scenarios each of you have played and who won them.
Back and ready to game

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:11 pm

I personally think all the scenarios are winnable by either side. It comes down to random events and the card draw...and the skill in managing the events and card draw. Even if one side is favoured, the other side can still win in a big way. I played Christian in Scenario 5 as US elite paratroops against his line Germans who starts with only one order per turn. Due to the vagaries of the objective chit, lucky time triggers and an artillery reinforcement for him, he won by a huge margin. Most of the time, I think the US will be favoured in this scenario.

Chee-Yan

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Post by jeff » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:52 pm

bsmith wrote:
jeff wrote:Ok, I'll be in.

I feel some of the scenarios are unbalanced and it might be difficult working out just how unbalanced it is, but we'll see how we go.
Yeah my thoughts also. There will be some skill required in figuring out your bid if you do indeed feel it's unbalanced. The designer thinks they're all balanced but we've all heard that before!
I've been discussing this with Christian, and I think the scenarios would be balanced for experienced players that have play tested the scenario many times and have found the optimal defense setup. The defenders have the handicap for inexperienced players. They lack the flexibility that the attackers have and their compensation is static defenses.

Trust me, it seems that I've played defenders too much recently... :?

However, the random scenario generator seems very balanced and the random factor means that specific scenarios haven't been play tested to optimum configuration by the designer, instead the generator system has.

Maybe that would be a better system than the pre-made scenarios. it would also illiminate the advantage of having "practised" a map more.

The Vickrey system could still be used to choose the armies. ie Axis or allies.

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Post by jeff » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:03 pm

Anonymous wrote:I personally think all the scenarios are winnable by either side. It comes down to random events and the card draw...and the skill in managing the events and card draw. Even if one side is favoured, the other side can still win in a big way. I played Christian in Scenario 5 as US elite paratroops against his line Germans who starts with only one order per turn. Due to the vagaries of the objective chit, lucky time triggers and an artillery reinforcement for him, he won by a huge margin. Most of the time, I think the US will be favoured in this scenario.

Chee-Yan
Winnable is different from being balanced Chee.

If scenario 5 is the game I think it is, (the large building with very high VP?), then I think one issue was that you failed to smoke and CC.

What the hell am I doing giving you tactical hints! I should be switching to tournament mode... :D

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Post by jeff » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:09 pm

One other thing with the random generator is that maybe there should be a global limit to the starting VP you can choose to prevent huge games.

The generator is balanced enough to handle disparity in numbers, but it might be a long game.

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Post by bsmith » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:09 pm

Maybe that would be a better system than the pre-made scenarios. it would also illiminate the advantage of having "practised" a map more.
This is a pretty short tournament anyway so we can always try random scenarios in the next one. What I've found in the ASL tournaments is the inexperienced players (like me) tend to bid to take the defense. Also, guys with a hangover will almost always want to play the defender so they don't have to think as hard :)

If two of us think the defense is easier then we both bid for the same side, the loser of the bid gets the balance in VP so it should still end up fair.

I'm all for democracy though so lets have a vote. My vote is to go through the scenarios for this tournament as it might be fun to compare results.

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Post by cyhiew » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:40 pm

Fine by me. I also tend to prefer the scenarios. Newbies may not know what forces or fortifications to choose for the random scenarios. At least these one have had been playtested and have probable play balance. (Random events and chits can swing things a lot).

I also tend to agonise over too much choice.

Chee-Yan
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Post by christianmoura » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:00 pm

I won't be at Dockers tomorrow (working). I'll focus on playing as many games as I can for the tournament this Saturday, since I will be away on holidays soon after Easter.

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